Lived Experience Forum

[chibam]

Those who are familiar with me are probably going to think I'm like a broken record, going off about this topic yet again. But I encountered this article today, and, combined with some other recent discussions I've been having, it's really brought the subject of therapist abuse - specifically as a societal phenomenon, rather then an individual experiance - to the forefront of my mind.

The Article: (Trigger Warning for those who've been abused by therapists)

https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/smart-living/australian-girl-raises-alarm-after-psychologist-mat...

It just gets me thinking that we really don't know what's going on out there, do we? Oh, there's plenty of positive PR being put out by the mental health system's shills:

"Most therapists go into the mental health system because they really want to help people..."

"Yes, some patients find therapy unhelpful; but most find it beneficial..."

But how do we know the true lay of the land? How many predators and abusers are there out there? 1 in 100,000? 1 in 15? 1 in 3? There is no open system-wide scrutiny, so there are no ready statistics.

What still astounds me to this day is that we had (or are undergoing) Royal Inquiries into Child Sexual Abuse, The Banks, Abuse of the Elderly, and Abuse of the Disabled; and a major part of all of those inquiries has been identifying the bad guys involved and going after them.

But when the Victorians had a Royal Inquiry into the Mental Health System - despite the fact that they were undoubtedly well aware from the get-go that the mental health system has presided over an incalculable amount of the most unspeakable abuse - they very, very pointedly refused to gear their inquiry towards "going after the bad guys", under the pretext of: "we want to focus upon building a bright future, rather then bemoaning the injustices of the past..." (I'm paraphrasing there).

Okay. So how come all the other Royal Inquiries have no qualms about resolving the injustices of the past? Why do evil therapists get a pass when evil priests don't?

Reading this article today just reminds me of how big a mistake that was; glossing over the presence of bad people infecting the mental health system. They are still out there. Still preying upon the vulnerable. And nobody who matters really cares, because we never stopped to acknowledge how big a problem their presence is when we had the best possible opportunity to do so.

This is such a big problem. How is it that the world doesn't seem to care about the abundance of crooked therapists, when they make such a noisy fuss about mental health, mental illness, and suicide?

[TideisTurning]

Hey @chibam, 

Firstly, I want to thank you for including the trigger warning on your post- this a great example of the Safety guideline in action 😊 

I'm hearing that the inquiries have brought up some really big feelings for you. I'm also getting a sense of the invalidation, anxiety, concern and injustice which will likely add to those big feelings you're trying to navigate. Please know that we hear you. If you, or anyone reading this who may be affected, feels like you could use some extra support, I'd encourage you to reach out to somewhere like Blue Knot Foundation. Take Good Care, 

TideisTurning 🌸 

[AussieRecharger]

There are some really good questions but I feel like it's a touchy subject because there are issues that are part of the national pastime that Australia does not like to talk about. 

You can't have a royal commission into health and not look into the effects of the jobseeker being below the poverty line, or the pension not even covering rent these days. Other factors such as Aborignal's in custody without even looking at the effects of intergenerational trauma in their life means we have to as a nation do a lot of soul searching.   It also means reforms for probably the poorest parts of our nation, and the bean counters would already have a stigma that this is not worth the cost-benefit analysis. 

In regards to mental health practitioners, there are bad apples in every bunch, corruption in the police force, corruption in politicians and doctors who abuse patients.  How we go about weeding them out, well thats an interesting question as the way how mental health is delivered is a very complex business. 

These days, we are working with more integrated care systems, meaning physiologists, peer support workers, gp's, housing departments, nutritionists etc,  all have insight into a person's recovery and hopefully, with more hands to help a person recover, the harder it is for them to be prayed on. 

Hopefully, Sane can be one of those organisations people can turn to and get an understanding if they are being treated unfairly. 

Thanks for asking the hard questions @chibam 

[Appleblossom]

@chibam @AussieRecharger 

Thank you for posting.

I am subscribed to a few conversations among therapists and about therapists on another site ... and am finding it worth a lot .... helps me evaluate and reflect on things that have happened to me in therapy or to my loved ones ... that I knew about ....what is fair and reasonable etc etc ...

Not sure that 'reaching out for support' is always the answer @TideisTurning It all depends on who and what the individual circs are. Sometimes the fire in the belly can be finding our own strength and resilience.

[wellwellwellnez]

We care. We're also not alone in caring. You're right, though. There's some "system issues" that's a still recycling problems. I'm half way through being trained to be part of some sort of "the system". I think I'm more concerned about ways to part of the problem than I was at the beginning. I look at a lot of policies and often can't work out who's protecting who.

Part of me wants to make my own system. But, that's partially trust issues. it would be great to part of something that's got a good all round approach. No traps. Just havens.

[chibam]

Thanks @TideisTurning , @AussieRecharger , @Appleblossom , @wellwellwellnez . 🙂

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@AussieRecharger wrote:

Hopefully, Sane can be one of those organisations people can turn to and get an understanding if they are being treated unfairly.

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Yeah, but IMHO, it goes way beyond merely understanding whether or not your being treated unfairly. There is also the extent of the unfairness to considder: "Okay, so I was treated unfairly. But was I treated so unfairly that it's worth making a fuss over? Or would that be making a mountain out of a molehill? And is it fair/justifiable to make some sort of fuss?"

I know beyond any doubt that my therapist certainly did some wrong things. I think she did a lot of wrong things. But do I have the scale of those behaviors properly aligned? Are the things I think of as the big deals really little deals, and vice-versa? Would an impartial outsider see the transgressions the way I do?

And then we get in to the question of blame. How much of what happened is my fault? For years, patients who didn't benefit from their therapy were ostensibly blamed for the failure of the treatment. "Hostile patient"; "difficult patient"; "treatment-resistant patient"; or, a slightly more kind variation, "they are suffering from a treatment-resistant mental illness".

I think thing are getting better in that regard. But how much of that hidden contempt for the patient still exists? How much would I be blamed for the way I was treated? And would that blame be fair, to some degree - or perhaps in it's entirety?

They say that most assaults go unreported; largely because the victims can't bear the prospect of that rabbit-hole of the reporting process. Having to defend themselves; being blamed; second-guessing their own perceptions and moral high-ground.

I think the same goes for harmful therapy. There's a lot of big issues involved there, and it goes well beyond merely understanding whether the therapist's conduct is wrong.

[chibam]

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@Appleblossom wrote:

Not sure that 'reaching out for support' is always the answer @TideisTurning It all depends on who and what the individual circs are.

Yes, exactly!

Because when it is the mental health system that has harmed you, you're probably not going to be very interested in reaching out to them again, are you? Once bitten, twice shy.

I can't help but think that places like these forums owe a lot of their trade to that phenomenon. People with no trust left for the system reach out to other people who are likely to be far more trustworthy - other patients; especially other patients who have likewise been mistreated by the system.

I know that, personally, the more distant a person is from any sort of formal mental health education/training, the more trustworthy I considder their input to be (at least on first impression). Not only do you avoid the cronyism, but you also dodge the deeper doctrine faults of the system, which is behind a substantial portion of the harm it's inflicted.

[chibam]

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@wellwellwellnez wrote:

We care. We're also not alone in caring

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Thanks, @wellwellwellnez 🙂 🤗

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@wellwellwellnez wrote:

I think I'm more concerned about ways to part of the problem than I was at the beginning. I look at a lot of policies and often can't work out who's protecting who.

Part of me wants to make my own system. But, that's partially trust issues. it would be great to part of something that's got a good all round approach. No traps. Just havens.

---

Testimony I've read indicates that - at least up until a couple years ago - the system is rigorously dedicated to protecting it's own doctrine. You simply aren't aloud to question an aspect of the system's doctrine that makes no sense to you. Members of the system that dare to present arguments that question the official doctrine face severe professional consequences - so I'm told.

It shouldn't be that way. The system shouldn't be geared primarily towards self-preservation, or the preservation of it's self-generated doctrine. It should exist first and foremost to serve it's patients.

I often watch that show "Air Crash Investigators". There are numerous episodes of that show where the captain of the plane does something stupid, and the copilot sees that he's doing something stupid, but he lacks the guts to tell his captain: "Hey! Your doing the wrong thing! Stop!" And so the plane crashes.

Typically those episodes end with the narrator informing the audiance that modern copilots are strongly encouraged by the airline industry to criticize their captains when the captains mishandle a situation; and even sieze control of the plane, if necessary. It's a good policy to avert disaster.

I wish the mental health system lived by a similar creedo.

When the junior recruits are sharp enough to recognize that the elders are giving bad treatment, the junior staff are expected and encouraged to question and criticize the elders' practices. Not just on a case-by-case basis, but in terms of the overall doctrine of the system, too.

After all, if the elders' practices are adequately justified, what do they have to fear from scrutiny?

It's time to do away with the ass-covering, and open up the whole system to free speech, free thought, and free inquiry.

[Greenvalley]

Unfortunately our systems are set up so that only what is physical hard evidence eg filmage dated and timed corresponding with complaint, is exceptable. When it's mental health the foundations, eg perceptions, the systems are not set up. Our government and legal system require hard physical evidence based on hard physical foundations this does not include our mental perceptions. Eg airspace. Hard but proven time and time again. Mental health compared to other issues in society is very new. They have yet to fix the system to make mental health compatible with the legal system. My experience has been that you say the words mental health and everyone runs for the hills. There are many issues to deal with before a major investigation can happen. Maybe to help us we can help to resolve some of the minor base issues and help them get a little bit closer to the royal commission. Maybe get involved but don't burn out. Remember the toitose and the hare race. Cross every tee and dot every eye. It's exhausting and need to look after self.

[Willy]

Hi @chibam 

I think the "broken record" approach towards some of the issues you raise is necessary and important.

It seems that every other day on this forum I am reading peoples stories about abusive treatment and practices. It seems to me that the biggest problem is not so much from individual "bad guy" "therapists , although I am sure there are more than a few of those around, but systemic abuse where therapeutic abuse is manifesting to an alarming extent and has been doing so for years.

You said:

when the Victorians had a Royal Inquiry into the Mental Health System - despite the fact that they were undoubtedly well aware from the get-go that the mental health system has presided over an incalculable amount of the most unspeakable abuse - they very, very pointedly refused to gear their inquiry towards "going after the bad guys", under the pretext of: "we want to focus upon building a bright future, rather then bemoaning the injustices of the past..."

I totally agree with you there. That Royal Commission, by taking a Pollyanna attitude to all the malpractice that has gone on and is still going on to this day, has completely ignored the elephant in the room.  

How can the toxic and dysfunctional system that the Vic royal commission so clearly identified possibly ever be  fixed when the underlying culture that is responsible for nearly all of these problems remains unchanged?

In my experience there are many good, competent therapists out there who do care and try to do the best they can for their clients but they are often overshadowed by a system that allows malpractice and abuse to flourish unchecked and even promotes and encourages it. 

What is needed is a 100,000 watt amplifier so that the broken record gets heard by the decision makers and the larger community. 

Regards

Willy