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@Historylover wrote:While addressing several aspects of my post I saw how broadly what we say swings into areas which were not intended but which, non-the-less, were both interesting and relevant.
Sorry if I got a little OT.
I do have a frustrating tendency to take existing discussions and spiral off into tangents of my own concern.
@Historylover wrote:I have shut down. Face-to-face, or telephone/call centre communication, for me, seems often to be a matter of trying to deal with as much as possible in the shortest time and I 'know' I will not be understood anyway, we won't 'click', it won't 'help' - and the opportunity to really communicate is missing.
I can relate. I haven't gone anywhere near the 'help' systems (well, aside from forums like this, occasionally) since I managed to get out of therapy. I've basically given up on reaching out because nobody - professional or social - seems to be genuinely interested in actually helping, and even if there was an interest there, I think I would be extremely lucky to be able to achieve a productive line of communication with them to pass along an understanding of what sort of "help" I need.
Frankly, I'm more likely to simply encounter judgement for being differant from the 'normals'; or an attitude of "I can't relate to what @chibam wants, so I'll just inflict what I think is best for him upon him." And add to that the fact that revealing my differant-ness to others comes with a severe risk of making them unhappy/uncomfortable, which is an ethical concern. If it can possibly avoided, I don't want to inflict any distress/misery upon the world.
@Historylover wrote:In healthy societies and families - for it is in families where reasoned thought is fostered - we learn to communicate sensibly and to be discerning in our relationships.
I agree. But just to clarify, I would use "family" in the sense of one's kindred spirits; not necessarily the biological genetic tree that our bodies were spawned from (i.e. our "birth family"/"birth parents").
@Historylover wrote:I would assert that we have lost the ability to communicate thoughtfully and that is currently the source of so many ills.
I can't help but wonder whether the problem is that we have "lost" an ability to communicate... or whether it is that we've never attained the level of communication necessary to navigate this unprecedented complicated world.
Life used to be so much simpler. Comparitively speaking, everyone was cut from the same cloth. They all grew up listening to the same nuns give the same lessons in the schoolhouse; all grew up listening to the same scriptures and coming to believe in the same god, because that was the only way of interpreting the world that was available to them. And sure, some of them may have had a vague awareness that somewhere, way way way way over the horizon, there were foreign countries with strange foreign people, who believed in strange foreign gods and lived according to strange foreign customs. But that little speck of awareness was a triviality that had no bearing whatsoever on their lives, as all that differant-ness was very far away, and the entirety of their lifespans was virtually guaranteed to be anchored in their small little monocultural town.
To be alive in those times was to be born on the same page as everyone you knew, or were ever likely to know. Communication surely must've been easier in such an environment, because the society had such a wide field of common referance points. It must've been so easy to appreciate where the guy you were talking to was coming from. At least for "normal" people, I guess...
But in this day and age, it's entirely possible to find households of atheists, christians, muslims, buddhists, and neo-pagans all living within a five-house radius. Media is so omnipresent these days that it's almost impossible for the average person to not have strong opinions on dozens of social/political issues all at once; whereas previously the vast majority of people probably only developed a passing interest in politics in the lead-up to an election. And to top it all off, we are nourished by such a wide array of cultural material that there simply aren't enough hours in the day for everyone to apprise themselves of all the popular material that's out there. You can be an avid TV watcher today and yet still frequently find yourself trapped with nothing to say when people at your table start talking about a hit show that you don't watch.
The challenge of being able to effectively communicate in such a diverse world is staggering. Life has never been so complex and common ground has never been such a sparse commodity. Building effective communication is no longer like building a bridge between the west bank and east bank of a small creek; it's more like trying to build a bridge between Earth and Jupiter; where the rift is overwhelming, and the two points never stay in the same place long enough for the process to get underway.
With that in mind, have we ever been able to communicate with the skill necessary for today's world?
@Historylover wrote:In times past, social situations were constructed from people with like values, opinions. We have to find that again. Discussion gives relationships DEPTH! It gives life PURPOSE and it gives us the opportunity to clean up the mess we have made of today's society.
Amen to that! 
Damn, @Historylover! 
The more you write, the more thrilled I am! You really do get it!
This part, in particular, really spoke to me:
@Historylover wrote:I'm not talking about giving them a hug, patting them on the back and saying "There, there." Perhaps even adding "It will be alright". It WON'T until people start fixing this broken system and our broken society.
Perhaps it would be a good place to start if every extended family took a look at its members and saw who needed their help. Who is broken? And then FIX it! Take some responsibility for your members.
I was a little uncertain, reading one of your previous posts, about whether you were implying that caring, by itself, was enough. But reading this, I can see that you definitely understand that it (usually) isn't; caring needs to be backed up by action to remedy the problem(s)!
It's surprising how many people just don't get that.
Your remarks about family were very timely. I've been thinking a lot recently about the role that so-called "family" (i.e. biological relations) has played in my woes. Not just in terms of failure to help, but also in trampling me down. A while back, when I was at my most vulnerable, but also most hopeful, I was abused and betrayed by my "family", when I was actually stupid enough to have hoped they might've been able to help me.
And that came at the end of a long line of exploitation and abuse from people who I mistakenly assumed I could trust.
Sometimes I almost break down when I think about how little it would've taken to change my fortunes immensely; how just one or two people willing to genuinely help me could've made my life worthwhile. Hell, I couldn't even get help when I brought it from a therapist for $150+/hour.
@Historylover wrote:It is like a production line - you're done, you're done - take this, come back next week - we don't get paid to be effective or care - we just turn up and we get paid. Simple as that. There is no accountability for what is happening in the system as these souls' lives go from bad to worse. It's high time people started paying attention to what is happening in the 'mental health system'.
There are some major inquiries going on into the MH system ATM, and they all seem to be advocating for significantly more patients/former patients to manage the system and preside over policy development.
But will things actually change as a result of those reccomendations? Will the changes be stong enough to make the system good? I think that requires a bigger leap of faith in our governments then most people are prepared to offer these days.
